This was Ricky Gervais' closing line at tonight's Golden Globes, as the camera was panning out and the credits were rolling.
He probably didn't intend it this way, but I found it funny because my classmate Jason has been arguing for the past two weeks that Christianity makes atheism possible.
Should make for interesting class and extra-curricular conversation tomorrow.
7 comments:
He certainly didn't mean it in the way you would say it. It's more of an inside joke among atheists. Like "Dear God, save me from your followers/fan club". Atheists are more comfortable satirically making jokes about stuff like that, which might cause a little cognitive dissonance and make people think. Like talking about the Flying Spaghetti Monster and dressing up like pirates.
Certainly there wouldn't be people who feel the need to identify themselves as atheists if it weren't for religion (not just Christianity, although that just happens to be the dominant religion here). It especially wouldn't be necessary to make a point about it if we didn't see so many people advertising their religion. Imagine if all the people who thanked God in their acceptance speech instead promoted golf. Gervais might have instead said something like "Thank you to Arnold Palmer for making me a non-golfer." People aren't coming to our doors promoting golf and they aren't insisting that we are bad people for being non-golfers and we're going to Hell where our balls will get blended, so we don't feel the need to identify ourselves that way. We also don't call ourselves a-astrolgers or ahomeopaths, even though we don't believe there is anything to either of those ideas (when we speak out against those ideas it's usually under the umbrella term skeptics/skepticism and usually when it might harm someone). Christians aren't being singled out, it's just that people in Muslim countries would be taking their lives into their hands if they outed themselves. If there wasn't an Expelled movie, there wouldn't be Expelled parodies and more parodies.
I think Jason is right, in a way. I was surprised to find out that the atheist groups in the Bible Belt have been better organized for longer and have more people showing up to events than places were you would normally expect atheists to be well organized. My understanding is that the atheist groups at places like MIT and RPI have always had trouble getting people interested in getting together as atheists, because so many people there are already out atheists they don't feel the need.
Did anyone in class have any other thoughts?
Chrisianity or religion as an ideal? What do you think?
Cat's Staff: We're studying theological anthropology this January, so in addition to thinking about human nature and its relationship to the divine, we're spending a bit of time looking at various theories about construction of the self and how that's changed over time or in different contexts, etc. Jason could explain it better but his argument is essentially that atheism is possible because of modern Western notions of the autonomous individual self, and Christianity (through philosophers' appropriation and/or rejection of various Christian tenets) had a major influence on this development of the "self." Ergo, Christianity made/makes atheism possible.
But yeah, I think Ricky Gervais meant it more in the way you write about, as a parody of those who do thank God in their acceptance speeches (though I didn't see or hear any who did so that particular night).
We didn't really get into much discussion about it - Jason and I talked a little before class, he was explaining more about this guy named Zizek, who is a self-proclaimed Christian Atheist and someone Jason is intrigued by and building this idea off of.
Anyway, then the professor came in and feminist theological anthropology was on the dock for the day so we dropped that conversation.
For what it's worth, I approve of the fact that you're not a golfer :), and I don't think you're a bad person because you're not a Christian. I also don't think you are going to Hell, and I am sorry that any Christians have told you otherwise. If it's any consolation, I pray the same prayer about those folks, "Jesus, I love you, but please save me from your followers."
Susanne: I'm not sure if your question is directed to me about Ricky Gervais, or in response to Cat's Staff.
For some reason the link to the Zizek article isn't working. Let's try again.
Zizek
If this doesn't work, here is the address:
www.dailyprincetonian.com/2010/10/13/26563/
I was able to get it to work by taking the blogger.com part off.
I haven't heard from Žižek in a while, I'm always interested in listening to him. Individual parts of his philosophy make a lot of sense, but putting it all together and dropping it into society might be a challenge. I was just checking out this recent video to remind myself of some of his ideas.
I think when he calls himself a Christian atheist (or Christian materialist) he may be trying to co-opt the Christian culture of Europe to promote his social ideas. It wouldn't work as well in the U.S. The Christian culture in the U.S. is different from that of Europe.
I think it's a lot different from when someone like Richard Dawkins calls himself a "cultural Christian".
As far as Christianity making atheism possible... Atheism predates Christianity. If we say theism causes atheism, there may be something to that although it's mostly a post hoc fallacy. If I came across a remote island which had a population of people who had no god belief and lack of any belief in the supernatural...would they be atheists or just people who had never been exposed to such ideas? I suppose it could be equated to atheism, but it's not a philosophical position, so there should be a distinction. Maybe Jason is thinking of the so called "New Atheists".
I know you wouldn't think I'm bad, and you don't need to apologize for other people.
Have you heard of Singers in Accord? I know someone who sings with them and they have a concert coming up on your side of town. There's discounts for poor college students(you get all the fun). It seems like something you would like.
I had not heard of Singers in Accord, though scoping out their web page, I'm pretty sure a friend's wife sings with them. Thanks for the tip!
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